India's China War

And a full-blown discussion about India's China war this time around :-)

1. Even reading through the 3 links provided by you, Chairman Mao called upon Nehru many time for negotiations to solve the border dispute. Nehru refused. Listen, a website article might present a different view by semingly cogent arguments. That can never replace a well researched and well supported book. Atleast read through the army reports in the bharat rakshak website. Much of it is still classified (precisely for the stupid Indian errors that it pointed out), but you can read quite a bit of it from there. long pdf files, written by the enquiry commission after this debacle. and absolutely fascinating. Much of what maxwell is researched from there too.

2. China does not accept the british drawn mc mahon line. They objected even when the British presented it to them in last 1800s. So, you cannot claim it as your fatherlands territory without dispute.

3. India was just naive, dumb and stupid. I would not mind if india won the war. But, all the military people were stating bluntly that India cannot afford to do what it did on the border. China was far superior militarily, and had the geographic advantage. So, what Nehru did was a BIG fiasco, going through with a plan without any rational basis. He put Kaul is charge of the army - an incompetent officer, just because he supported Nehrus viewpoint. That time, it was the worst case of political interference into army affairs.

4. As you said, every country operates with its own national interest. China had every right to build a road through what it claims to be their territory. And if you cannot do anything about it, shut up and accept it. Dont send jawans to be killed for nothing. Else, build up a strong military and oppose. NOTHING can justify what Nehru did.

4A. And yes, China is a pragmatic country. It supports India now, keeping its cards close to its chest. Sure, India is not competing against Japan. But, India will act as a counterweight to the blatant US attempt to get Japan into the UNSC just to serve as a counterweight to China.

4B. And I think 4 veto countries can succeed to convince US. India is not that worried. India is worried about getting 2/3 majority in UNGA. It cannot do bankroll diplomacy as Japan. And, accept it or not, a lot of countries (esp muslim) oppose india for what we are doing in Kashmir.

5. I think Pakistan is a player in Kashmir. I dont think thats right. But, that is reality. I am being passionate about palestanian cause, but pragmatic here. You are being the opposite. I would NOT shed 20 more years of blood of my countries jawans, just to let India rise economically much better than Pakistan, and hope the Kashmiris will find economic benefits more attractive than religion. I am glad that successive Indian governments think the same, and are engaging the Pakistanis in discussions, to find a solution; not to push the problem back.

6. Countries opposed to India's seat are driven by self-interest, agreed. What I merely pointed out was, countries will just use this Kashmir flashpoint as a reason to deny India a berth. There is very very little to oppose India through any other reason. And Kashmir, I believe is a ligitimate reason. It is India's failure in statesmanship (or military, whichever) that Kashmir is such a big problem now.

7. Indian diplomacy is trying to achieve that. And finding it hard for this very reason. I am not against India getting into UNSC. I hope I got the point across when I wrote a mail to you with the start of this thread.