[1227] Here Dead We Lie
Continuing with Vikram Doctor's guest theme:
Here dead we lie
Because we did not choose
To live and shame the land
From which we sprung.
Life, to be sure,
Is nothing much to lose,
But young men think it is,
And we were young.
-- A. E. Housman
|
The second is a well known one by A.E.Housman, but its
not yet featured on minstrels. I guess its Flecker's
line "I was a poet, I was young" which makes me think
about it, since it also deals with young mens' dreams.
It is in its low key way quite an extraordinary poem,
for the punch it packs, simulatenously compassionate,
commemorative, patriotic and yet with such sad and
bitter knowledge at the end.
Vikram
[Martin adds]
The second verse of this poem is one that has haunted me ever since I first
read it. Housman's ironic "Life to be sure is nothing much to lose" recalls
Wilfred Owen's quoting of "the old lie, 'Dulce et decorum est, pro patria
mori'", and to my mind, the quiet "but young men think it is, and we were
young" is an even more effective depiction of the pity of war than Owen's
graphically detailed horrors. Housman's narrator says, in effect "yes, we
fought and we died, but know that we did so in full awareness of the
price we were paying."
martin
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From: Acynta@
Re: Here Dead We Lie
Hating to be the one who mentions rhyme scheme, nevertheless, it's quite cool
as this poem's is ABCD EBFD, which links the two stanzas quite beautifully
and adds to the compactness and poignancy of the poem.
carlynn
From: sandi_ordinario@
Comment on Poem #1227 A.E.Housman's Here Dead We Lie
It is almost a negative ode to youth, its ideals, its
angst or a nihilistic expression of youth "making a
difference".
The first stanza is a form of reality check that implies
nothing that youth does or says will mean much to his
present world.
The second stanza confirms what Dylan Thomas describes
wisemen whose "words had forked no lightning..." Yet unlike
A.E., Thomas suggests for them not to go gentle into oblivion.
Housman holds on to the opposite view that for the youth, life
does not have anything much to lose and hence nothing of value
to fight or die for.
It is a very acute and lyrical poem that speaks of perceived
inadequacy of disillusioned youth in a mundane, adult world.
Sandi
From: Martin DeMello <martindemello@>
--- sandi_ordinario@ wrote:
> The second stanza confirms what Dylan Thomas describes
> wisemen whose "words had forked no lightning..." Yet unlike
> A.E., Thomas suggests for them not to go gentle into oblivion.
> Housman holds on to the opposite view that for the youth, life
> does not have anything much to lose and hence nothing of value
> to fight or die for.
I'd strongly disagree with this - I think Housman is being bitterly ironic in
the second verse, pointing out that though the 'Establishment' keeps harping on
about glorious death, the young know better; know that life *is* a lot to lose.
The first verse says that they felt the price worth paying; the second adds
that they paid it with their eyes wide open.
martin
From: sandi_ordinario@
Thanks Martin, for the your interpretation. I will not argue about it but I
think in Houseman's time terms such as Angst, Weltzmer(?) and Nihilism was
the fad so that my drift maybe the result of what I know. You have made it
positive by claiming life has so much to lose from the point of view of the
young. I see it differently. I feel that Housman expressing the frustration
of the young for not making a dent in their world has resulted in the poem. A
great poem, no matter.
My best,
sandi
From: Gene Skuratovsky <gskur@>
Re: Rhyming Scheme
Although the poem is shown here in two stanzas, four lines each, with
the apparent rhyming scheme being ABCD EBFD, it is a fancy. One might
add to this illusion a note of a clever 2-3-3-2 iambic rhythm per stanza.
In truth, this poem is written as a single quatrain in a favorite English
iambic pentameter, perfectly rhyming ABAB. Just rewrite it properly, and
you will see it!
Hope this is helpful.
Gene
From: "Jim Clark" <hyperbolelad@>
A E (Alfred Edward) Housman (1859 - 1936) poet and classical scholar
wrote several poems during the first world war. This one written in 1914
elequently and concisely spells out the tragedy of young men cut down
before their time in WW1.
Heres the link to where you can listen online to this and many other
classic and original poems set to music....
http://tinyurl.com/5pya5
Regards
Jim Clark
PS..Dont forget you can if you prefer listen to many of my my sound
poems at my Yahoo "sound poetry" web group (look in "files") heres that
link.. #
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloozman_uk/
All rights are reserved on this sound recording/copyright/patent Jim
Clark 2004
Here Dead We Lie
Here dead we lie
Because we did not choose
To live and shame the land
From which we sprung.
Life, to be sure,
Is nothing much to lose,
But young men think it is,
And we were young.
From: "Sarouche Razi" <sarouche@>
I had read this years ago, and somewhere along the line, in my head i
changed the poem...and now the changes version strikes me even more...
Life, to be sure,
Is nothing much to lose,
But old men this it is,
and we were young
old men value life because they know theyre at the end of their own, its
why old people fret...while the young are so carefree that they act as
though theyre immortal...and the "and we were young" part takes on a
different significance, because now he's saying firstly, "we threw our
lives away", and secondly, "we never had the chance to think our lives
WERE much to lose, we never had the chance to grow old, and experience
the panics of old age"- it now strikes me as a better version